S3 Ep8: Financial Confidence Starts Young with Jayne Brewer CEO, 2B Enterprising

What if we are waiting far too long to teach confidence, money and leadership?

By the time many women step into the workplace, beliefs around money, ambition and possibility may already have formed.

In this episode of The She Leads Collective Podcast, I’m joined by Jayne Brewer, CEO of 2B Enterprising — an organisation bringing enterprise, employability and financial education into primary schools across the UK.

Jayne shares her own journey into becoming a CEO, the reality of leadership behind the scenes, and why teaching confidence and financial awareness early could change futures.

In this episode we explore:

•  The realities of leadership behind the scenes
 • Why enterprise and employability education belongs in primary schools
 • The surprising age at which financial habits begin to form
 • Why role models and exposure matter for children
 • Women, investing and financial confidence
 • Female angel investing and supporting women founders
 • Leadership confidence versus financial confidence
 • The importance of networks, asking questions and backing yourself

Jane also shares moving examples of children building confidence in real time and explains how 2B Enterprising has already reached more than 70,000 young people. 

Connect with Jayne on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaynebrewer/

To find out more about 2B Enterprising - https://www.2benterprising.co.uk/

This episode also marks a special milestone: the 50th episode of the She Leads Collective Podcast. Thank you to every guest, listener and supporter who has been part of the journey so far.

🔗 Connect with Mary: marygregory.com

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 ✨ Produced by Mary Gregory Leadership Coaching

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to She Lee's Collective Podcast. I'm Mary Gregory and I'm so glad you're here. This podcast is a space for honest conversations about what it really means to lead as a woman today and how we can all show up with more courage, care and clarity. You'll hear from inspiring women, powerful allies, and bold truth tellers who are changing the game not by playing tougher but by leading smarter, softer and stronger. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the She Leads Collective Podcast. What if we're waiting far too long to teach confidence, money and leadership? And by the time we do, the beliefs have already set in. When we talk about gender equity, leadership and opportunity, we often focus on the workplace. But it's well known that our beliefs are shaped earlier, which includes our foundations of confidence, financial capability and ambition, all being formed long before we step into our first job. Well, my guest today is someone who is working right at that starting point. I'm really delighted to be joined by Jane Brewer, CEO of To Be Enterprising, an organisation bringing enterprise and employability education into primary schools across the UK and also increasingly internationally. Jane is passionate about helping young people build the skills, mindset, and financial awareness they need to navigate their futures. She's also a committed ally to women, supporting female entrepreneurs and leaders through investment networks, and is a founding member of Women's Angels in Wales, working to demystify business and finance so more women can step into opportunity with confidence. In this conversation, we're going to be exploring Jane's journey into her first CEO role, what leadership looks like behind the scenes, the work to be enterprising is doing to shape the next generation, and the role we all have in building financial confidence, particularly for women. Jane, thank you so much for joining me. It's a delight to have you here. Thanks, Mary. So let's kick off and talk about first of all your journey to becoming a CEO, because I'm sure there are listeners to this podcast who are really curious about how you went about that. You've actually had a varied career. What were some of the key moments that led you to step into your first CEO role?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, I've had quite a varied career and had experience in leadership positions that led up to becoming CEO, as well as directorships of consultancies and of Wales Millennium Centre in Cardiff, which was an incredible journey. So when the opportunity came around to be chief exec of a new business, I was really flattered and I was intrigued. I wouldn't say I jumped at the opportunity because I had two children under 18 months and probably thought that this is a riskier opportunity. So it wasn't something that I could make a really quick decision on. It took a lot of thought because it was a brand new business. But I absolutely fell in love with the cause, and that's what led me to accept the role. And also that, you know, life is short, and I didn't want to regret not taking the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

And what was it about the cause that you fell in love with?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I love the concept of teaching young children about enterprise from a very early age. Um, when their inhibitions don't prevent them from asking silly questions or making crazy suggestions, and really letting their imagination run wild because that's where the best ideas come from. And I wish I'd known about running my own business or being entrepreneurial from a much earlier age. And many of the businesses that attend our workshop sessions and teachers that see it in action always say, I wish we had this earlier. So it's needed and it's very much appreciated. And I've seen that more and more every single year as this business develops. So yeah, it was it was very appealing to me.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

So you're clearly really passionate about young people and financial awareness. Where do you think that comes from for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I guess um I went on a very traditional career path myself, an educational path from GCSEs to A levels to um university, so a degree, then a master's, and then into the workplace. And I don't I saw many varieties of success within that throughout my friendship groups. And I don't I want to ensure that children feel like they've got lots of different opportunities, um, and that university isn't the only way to be successful, um, that there are several different exciting routes, um, and that the gives greater opportunities to learn practically without getting into debt. I think that's a big um that's a big issue associated with university these days. And I think that the more financially confident someone is, the better decisions they'll make. And as a parent to a six and seven-year-old, I realise how much they learn, how much they absorb, and how much they repeat at this age. They do say financial habits are formed by the age of seven. So it's vital that we're exposing them to the best habits and opportunities as soon as possible to make those informed decisions. Is university the right way, or actually going out into the workplace, building up some capital, learning on the job, apprenticeships, etc., is just trying to blow that wide open.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yes, it's really opening up options for people and from a young age, educating people that they've got choices.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Absolutely. And I think often it's not just the children that we need to support. And I had a wonderful role in Gower College where I worked with employers, but often we would notice that it was parents we needed to convince that apprenticeships were a good idea, not necessarily the children, because there's so many preconceived ideas about what apprenticeships were traditionally. Um, and we're very influenced by our parents. So either you've got somebody pushy and they're they're driving to get you to university and not necessarily informed, or they don't have role models at all, so don't understand what's available. So we have to try and be um sort of that, you know, the open eyes to young people to make sure that they understand and they're getting the best advice. Great.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

It sounds really positive on all counts, actually. Whatever your background, this is something that's gonna be really helpful for you.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we love it, and I'm working with an amazing team. You know, we get to go into loads of different schools, we get to experience a real variety of learning abilities, qualities in the education space. Um, and it's fascinating. And we meet some amazing children that I know are going to be the next little, you know, bright sparks and entrepreneurs, and yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Very good. Well, let's move more into thinking about your job and your role as CEO and the reality of what that's like for you. What has actually surprised you about being a CEO?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Um, how lonely it is. I think I think many people would agree with that. That um, you know, I've got I've always had a great board. I'm surrounded by um an amazing family, very supportive family, which it wouldn't have been possible for me to take on a role like this with two young children. So, and I understand that that influences a lot of people's decisions. Um so they're they're super supportive, but in the role itself, you often feel quite isolated. Um you there are often moments where certain scenarios can't be discussed with anybody else, and hard decisions need to be made because you're the leader, and ultimately, whatever decisions are made will fall on your shoulders. So in those moments, you can seek support, and I've built up a really good network, and particularly with the women's angels in Wales, actually, they are an incredible strong group of very experienced women that are never afraid to give support and advice. And and I think in the last two or three years, that's been critical for me as we've as we've grown this business. But you can't be afraid to ask, you can't be afraid to ask. And I think sometimes in that role, you think that you should know everything. I certainly didn't know everything, certainly not, and I wasn't afraid to put my hands up and say, I'm not sure. Um, so I think you you sort of address that loneliness, but also you can't be afraid to go, I'm on my own here. Who is the best person that I can talk to that would understand or help me workshop through some of these thoughts and feelings?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I mean, I I hear I hear what you're describing there is I do a lot of work with ego, and ego is like our defence mechanism. So we're all wanting to look good and not look bad and all that sort of thing. And yet what I'm hearing is you've had to open yourself up to being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Very much. And I'm I'm probably better at doing that than a lot of CEOs or founders. Um, because you've, you know, this is this is my baby. This is, you know, what I feel hugely passionate about and what I should know the most about. Um, but but that doesn't necessarily make you the best CEO. Um, and I think a lot of founders need to acknowledge that as well, is when they do need to take a step back and allow somebody to be the financial controller or be the operational manager or be play to their strengths. Um, but in that moment where you're building up a team, you know, it gets easier because, right, I've recruited somebody there so I can offload something. I've recruited somebody there so I can offload that. So you you slowly chip away at the bits that you perhaps know that you're not good at. And it was only six months ago, uh, nine months ago, actually, that I appointed a chief operating officer. And that has been a game changer for me, a real game changer from a sharing perspective, from uh actually carving out the time for me to do the things that I'm really good at. Um, and there's not many of them, Mary, but I know what I'm good at, and I need to stick to that. Um, so it's so playing to your strengths. Absolutely, and sometimes at the start of that journey, you can't afford to play to your strengths, strengths. You have to be all things to all people, and that's what's difficult as well, is that when you're recruiting and you're recruiting into a very, you know, we've got educational establishments and teachers and children, and then businesses who want to get something from the relationship that you're providing them. So we work with a number of, and I love my team, they're incredible, they're incredible, but everybody needs different things. So it's trying to make sure that your leadership style and your motivational style, I don't always get it right, my team know that. Um, but it's trying to make sure that it fits that person. And I think when you're a small team, it's very visible how you're treating everyone. I think when you get higher and higher up with multiple layers, it becomes a lot easier to be managing a certain level. But you know, we're all in it, we're absolutely all in it, and a very great mix of incredible characters and skills. And I'm super proud of it, but I don't always get it right.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Right. Okay. So you've talked about some of the challenges, you've talked about um the importance of your network and having the support systems in place. What do you really enjoy about the role?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

I really enjoy seeing the impact. I mean, the team try and keep me out of the classroom because they know that my strengths are with the business development side of things and raising investment. But I love it. I love it. Um, because you literally see transformations within an hour. And um, we have a Future Generations Commissioner, um, Future Generations, uh Wellbeing of Future Generations act, Derek Walker. Um, and Derek actually came along to one of our sessions, and I loved hearing his reaction when he came out of the classroom. Um, and I think his words were I've literally seen children transformed in an hour. And because we we did the workshop where the children are building up their confidence and meeting new people for the first time. So that was a sort of simulated activity. We read the storybook and then we say, you might feel really nervous meeting people for the first time. So, you know, but don't look down, don't hunch over, importance of body language stand-ups, big smile, big smile. Um, and that breaks down so many barriers. And these are only five and six year olds, and how much they develop in that hour fills me. It's my favorite workshop, it absolutely fills me with joy. Um, and there was one instance where we had a little girl and she put her hand up to nominate herself to come up and because we say, Does anybody want to come up and demonstrate how it should be done? So this little girl put her hand up, and I could see the TA at the back of the room thinking, Oh, is she gonna be okay? And she came up and she confidently introduced herself to the business partner. I can't remember what her name was, but hi, I'm Lily or whatever. And um uh I like playing Lego and uh um cooking with my friends. And the business partner sort of said, Oh, this is what we do, rah-and she sat back down and later on the TA said to me, That little girl has only been with us for six months. She moved here from Afghanistan, didn't speak a word of English when she got here six months ago. So to see her get up and introduce, I mean, I could literally I get full, you know. And I'm getting goosebumps, listening. I know, I know, and I couldn't, I just couldn't believe it. You would never have thought. Um, and then there's other children that put their hands up and then they bring it back down again, and no, I'm too nervous. But by the end of the session, they're like, No, I want to do it, I want to do it. And it it is just transformational. And so many of our business partners say, I wish we'd had this. He said, Can you come and do this with my team back in the office? Because they need that, it's such a basic skill, Mary. Such a basic skill that a lot of us take for granted. You and I met on the Metros at the underground, didn't we? And but we had that comment, oh, you've been to that event, you've been to that event. This would never have happened if we didn't have that ability to introduce ourselves, and I would have missed this wonderful opportunity to meet somebody like you. And I want my children to have that opportunity. I want those children to have the opportunity. So that's really why I love it. It's it's the the the the change in the classroom in children at such a young age. And as I said, when I joined this business, I had an 18-month-old and a six-month-old. Pretty stupid time to join a startup, admittedly. I didn't know what they'd be capable of at five and six. So it's only as they've grown up that I'm like, ah, this is what we're working with. This is um, and my children go to Welsh language school, but we don't speak Welsh in the house, so it's a bit of a risk. To see how they communicate in a totally different language, just it blows my mind. And I'm so proud of what we've achieved with over 70,000 young people in the last, you know, it's just over four years now. 70,000 young people we have met.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Gosh, that's a huge impact, Jane. That's incredible, and it sounds absolutely magical. Um, so I'm going to ask you a bit more about to be enterprising, really exploring why it is so important and why it matters. For those that are listening, what does to be enterprising do in practice? I mean, I think you've described some of it, you've described one of the workshops, but I think it's more all-encompassing than that, isn't it? Yeah. So it's not just one workshop.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

No, so we've developed a program of activities, lesson plans, um, storybooks that are the hook for lesson plans to lead children into activities. We've got presentations and activity sheets. So all of those are available on a portal that the school has a login for. So they can access for for years one to six, so ages five to eleven, they can access resources that they can download and teach in the classroom. So we're trying to make it as easy as possible for teachers who are very time poor and need to develop things really quickly, creatively. So we've got all of these activities for teachers to use, um, but we also physically go into every school three times a year with my education team. Um, and that gives us the opportunity to also take in a supporting business partner. So every school has a business partner that pays for the resources and comes along to the workshop sessions if they'd like to. So we have representatives from um EY, uh from Silverstone Racing Circuit, from Principality Building Society to National Grid. So a range of employers will come out with us to sort of help contextualize the learning. So we go out and we deliver three workshops a year. They're about an hour each, but it gives us that opportunity to get it into the classroom, get the teachers talking about, you know, this is how we deliver enterprise and employability, and this is how you can make sure it's driven through every single lesson that you deliver. So it's leadership, problem solving, communication. You're doing it every day. But how do the children recognize what those skills are, what good looks like, and how important they'll be in the future? So that's it, that's essentially the program. It's an annual program. So we work with years one and two, and then the business partner will renew and we work with the next year group. So it's a rolling program. Um, and we're delivering that, we've delivered that to over 400 schools across the UK. And now we're talking to schools in the UAE and the USA about how we sort of um get that over um over in those schools as well. So some of them will follow the British curriculum, so it fits really nicely, but there are other schools that literally want to drive enterprise and and go beyond Enterprise Week and do something a little bit more fun to what I really like is the collaboration with business.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

So employers are sponsoring these resources and also being present in the classroom as well. So it's not like they're doing it and being invisible, they're actually present in the classroom when certain activities are going on. It sounds incredibly proactive.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

And I think those, you know, the children get the opportunity to ask questions. Like, what does it like? Well, what do you do in the financial services sector? What does a builder decide to do? What do you do at Silverstone Racing Circuit? You know, it's and actually the lady that comes along from Silverstone, uh Lauren, she's brilliant, and she sits in the education team. So her role is to make sure that every single member of staff are absolutely familiar with the health and safety procedures. You can imagine an environment like that, they have a lot of volunteers on race days, and you know, her job is to make sure that the races go ahead, the events go ahead with a team of people that are expert and clued up and skilled up to deliver the best possible experience. So you might never see them, you might never see those skills, but it and it and it's wonderful. And that we're actually taking the kids to the circuit and to the museum for the next workshop. So we'll do the workshop in the museum, Silverstone Museum. So that's going to be really good fun.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Oh, I love the way it's so expansive, actually.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

So sometimes we get really carried away, which is great, which is great. And they're, you know, Silverstone, it's it's it's really close to the school that they support. So, you know, they're they're facilitating the bus for the children, and you know, they they've really taken it on. So there's lots of employers that do that, you know, they have merch printed water bottles and kit bags, and you know, they there's no expectation to do that. But once they're in that classroom, you're literally you're you're swept away by the energy, and it's well, it just sounds so inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

I mean, and and that that that gentleman that observed I'm seeing this child transform in front of my eyes, it just sounds like that's what's going on. It's incredibly inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, it's great, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Why do you feel it is so important to build enterprise and financial awareness at this level and not leave it till later? Because these are very young children.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

It is, but it's been, you know, it it's been lobbied to be a key part of the curriculum, which is fantastic, it's absolutely brilliant. Um, so yes, teachers are uh mandated to to teach it and hopefully be well supported in that, so that you know, those those lesson plans, etc., will be available to them because sometimes it's the teachers can be unfamiliar. Um, and I was I was talking to somebody earlier that we I sat in a in a room yesterday with a load of other business professionals and you know, sort of my age and above. So, you know, we weren't all youngsters in the room, and we were we were talking about pensions, and a lot of us sort of looked around the room like I don't really know uh how many I've got or where they are, or I really need to get a handle on that. So there's a lot of uncertainty around certain elements of financial security that even at 45, 46, we're not up with. So I feel like it's so important, and as I said earlier, you know, financial behaviours are formed, you know, sort of by age seven, and we see this in our children. You know, I've got one child that as soon as money goes in his hand, he will spend it, it will disappear before his very eyes, and the other child will save it. I'm gonna put that in my piggy bank. Already the behaviors are quite different, and I think um it it's it's just so important that we. Work with young people as they start to form opinions and habits, as well as thinking about their needs and wants for the future. You know, needs and wants are very different. What how do they prioritize? What do they understand? Um, for some children, it might be it's it's making sure that you know I have a roof over my head and I have shoes and I have food. Whereas for others, it's well, I want to go on holiday to the Maldives every year. And so we're working in very different spaces um and very different privileges, level of privilege and um social um capital, that we absolutely have a duty to support these young people. Some of them don't have role models, they won't have role models at home. Um, and we've got a real duty to be able to support that. And what I love about our business partners who come on board is they see that. They don't see, obviously, they they a lot of them support older, um older children as well. So those that are closer to the job market, but those that are supporting our primary school space, they absolutely get it. And again, when they come into the classroom, they can see how super switched on and savvy and creative these kids are, and they're our future.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

They are our future. So let's move on now and talk a bit more about women, money, and leadership, because you are a great ally to women, and you're also deeply involved in supporting women. What are you noticing about women's relationship with money and investment?

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I'd say um I'd say many of us are uh not as big risk takers as others, so we carefully consider what we're doing. Um I think again, it's that financial security that I think we um we need to focus on individually because we never know what's gonna happen. Could it be that you know we're the only earner in the house, we're bringing up a family. So I from that perspective, I feel it's it's super empowering. Um and I don't know whether you watched recently A Woman of Substance. I think it's a it's an old novel, isn't it? But it is wonderful. And I literally um and it, you know, it's a it was a really interesting program. I felt empowered as I was watching like this woman is doing it for herself, and she has goals and she's driven and she doesn't want to be reliant on anybody else. And that is very empowering for a woman, that very empowering, and it's security, it's safety. So I think that our our relationship, I think we have a lot more control. You know, there are women in higher powered positions than they were perhaps when my mum was um in work and um and sort of role models years and years and years ago. So we do have that opportunity. We are seeing women at the top earning a lot of money, and that's well, it why shouldn't it be like that? But um I think as a collective, the Women's Angels of Wales, we're we're always very interested in each deal being presented, and we're very happy to give feedback and support that that female founder. Um, and I think it's a tough journey uh for anybody, for anybody getting involved in investment or seeking investment, it's a tough journey. And the more support we can give to people, the more prepared they feel, the better.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

I mean, can I understand that it's only like women get two percent of investment that's available? It's a minute percentage. It's minute. Why does finance why is that the case? Why does finance still feel so inaccessible for women?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

I I don't know. I don't know. And I do think that we're a little bit we have again, it's it's limited um visibility of what we could potentially do with our money. So again, if you know, if I put a deal in front of my husband, he'd be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one sounds great. I'd be like, hang on a minute now, we need to look this through a little bit more thoroughly. And I just think that they've got a a level of confidence that perhaps we haven't got, or that we want to interrogate things a little bit. I'm not, I'm not gen, I'm not, yeah, I am generalizing a little bit here from my peers and people that I've spoken to, but I guess until I went for investment four years ago, I didn't know anything about investment. So I would never have considered making an investment. I've made two since that time. I've made two investments in female founded businesses, which I love. I love the fact that I've got the ability to do that and contribute, and that I'm in charge of where my money has gone and that it could be potentially um so supportive for another female founder. Traditionally, I've been very much get a house, property is your capital, property is your security. And unless we familiarise ourselves with a range of different um options, then we've got limited flexibility to do what we want to in the future. So I'm really keen to try and get young women to come along to the Women's Angels of Wales just to experience it, you know, just to witness it and get familiar with the terminology. A, because they might be a female founder one day and they might need to go into that boardroom and absolutely kick ass to secure funding, or they might be in a fortunate position where they have inheritance or they earn a lot of money and they've got the possibility of making a real change, then they need to be aware of it. Not 10 years later, not you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

How do women so I mean you're talking about women angels in Wales? How do women in other parts of the country get access to investing clubs like that?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

So um, again, there's there's a range of different um groups and syndicates. Um, there's the UK British Angels Association, the UK BAA, which has got loads of resources online to educate. So we've all been through the course actually. The UK BAA ran a course for us. Um so I still haven't got my certificate, actually. I'll have to remind her about that. Um, but it was really, it was really interesting and did open your eyes to the risks associated, obviously, which is super important to talk about. But there are plenty of angel networks, but you have to go out there and find them because it it's quite a tight network. And again, people tend to assume that I need shed loads of money, I need millions of pounds to invest. Our minimum ticket price for investment with Women's Angels of Wales is £2,000. And obviously, there are a lot of um uh enterprise investment scheme, seed enterprise investment scheme that they can get tax relief benefits on. That again, a lot of people don't understand. So, and actually, it probably took me two to three years to make my first investment because I wanted to feel really comfortable and confident and know as much as possible. So, the sooner we can get women comfortable and confident with it, the sooner we can expose them to founders and ideas and really drive that agenda of increasing female entrepreneurs, increasing female investors, and marrying the two and getting a really strong collaboration. But I think it's only since I've the last four years being involved in Women's Angels of Wales, having investment myself, has it exposed me to different groups and made me feel comfortable about being a part of that group.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

So, if someone, you know, for a woman listening today who hasn't actually engaged in investing at the moment, where would be somewhere for them to start? What would be what would be one thing they could do to get started?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

So I would suggest looking for a local or national female angels syndicate. So simply looking for that. And there's there's quite a wide range out there, and actually, LinkedIn is a great source. I mean, even if somebody wanted to say, I'm interested in investing, can anybody signpost me to somebody that's done it before? And we, you know, we try and do um, we sort of, I mean, I I kind of organise the socials for the women's angels of Wales. I play to my strengths, Mary. That's what I like doing. And and bringing together women and saying, look, if if every member invites another female potential member to come in, a really safe space, let's have a chat about what we do. Um, we can grow our syndicate. And we've we've got some fantastic women on board that would never have considered investing before and might have sold their business and never, you know, sort of thought about what they were going to do. And again, they're they're not they're not really young women. You know, we're we're doing this later in life, which is great because we've got a little bit more experience. Um, but we still need those younger business ideas and younger investors because that's diversity, isn't it, as well? Um, an opinion and what's current and is this going to work in the current market? Um and what other issues do we have to face? So it's it's great to have that balance.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yes, yes. I've got another question, final question on this, really, which is to what extent do you feel leadership confidence and financial confidence align? So I suppose almost the other way around, if you feel financially confident, does that make you a more confident leader? And vice, and if you're a confident leader, does that make you more financially confident? I suppose I'm exploring to what extent it's chicken and egg here.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Chicken and egg, yeah. So I think, I mean, there are many things that underpin leadership confidence, many things, but I think understanding money and what it means to have it or not to have it can influence leadership behaviour. And it may be that there's that's due to a hunger for financial confidence and success, therefore, a stronger drive to achieve and want to be a leader or sustainability of a business. You know, what I'm focused on and what my team know I'm focused on is the success of the business. And to do that, we need A, B, and C to work. And we're all very reliant on each other. And sometimes I don't, I know that I don't always communicate that part of it. Sometimes I think perhaps they don't, they they're not interested, they're doing their part of the job, and as long as that happens, but I want them to realize that they're an integral part of ultimately that invoice being sent, that being paid, there being money in the bank and growth and sustainability. So I think my leadership confidence has grown from having a much better understanding of the bottom line, definitely. You can make certain decisions. I guess that's the same in life as well. You know, when when we make decisions as a family, you know, I'm fortunate enough, my mum and dad are still around. They're really, you know, really supportive of myself and my sister and our families. And if ever I've got a question, I have no problem going to them or exploring other things. So it's and it's just about feeling more comfortable in your decision. So when you have to make that decision again, it's that much easier. You know, I've bought this is the fourth house I've bought that I that I still own. Um, and each time it's got a lot easier. The first time I'd never forget how scared I was, how scared I was. And I think, yeah, it's it's quite interesting. And then having friends go through that, it's like, oh yeah, you know, just you get a mortgage and you just get more comfortable with it. And that is very liberating, it's very empowering, and I I just think it makes you feel more confident to take a risk, you know. I took a big risk when the kids were 18 months and and six months to build a business. Um, and yeah, and it's still an uphill struggle, but I it it's I'm fortunate enough that I absolutely love it. So nothing's nothing distracts me from um the focus.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And I yeah, I do get a real sense that the joy completely counterbalances any challenges you might face. And not only just that, but you're making such a difference, and you can actively see the difference that you're making.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, and and I think we're you know, we're not a charity, you know, we're not a third sector, we're a you know, ultimately profit-making business. I've got shareholders that have invested in my business that are probably quite interested in us doing a good job, making a difference, but also having a return because they've they've taken a risk. I'm very mindful of that, Mary. Every single day I am very mindful that I have got a cap table of people that want us to succeed and that have taken a risk essentially on me and my leadership. So that that never, and I think I'd probably feel different in future businesses because I built up that confidence and that understanding of where you sit. Um, so sometimes I'm like, you know, my next job is going to be in, I just want to be in like MS food hall, right? Where I just want that job where I can go, I'd love every job that I have. I've always loved every job, but the idea that the doors would close and I can't do any more work because the doors are closed. Um doesn't have to be MS. Various other brands exist. And but I can see why founders go on because I think, well, you've you've sold out your business. Why are you going on and doing something else? A, I think it's an absolute bug that we get. B, you've well hang on a minute now. I've I've got all of that experience from that. It might be a terrible experience, but all of that experience, I now know what I'm doing. I mean, I would make very different decisions now to what I made four and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

That leads to my next question, then. What's the one thing that you know now about leadership that you didn't before becoming a CEO?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

I think I've sort of allude to this earlier, is that it's surrounding yourself with practical, real, supportive individuals who you respect. I think there'll be a lot of people that are prepared to give you advice and their opinion. Um and it's not always the best advice or the best opinions. Um you want them to tell you the truth. You don't, I'm I'm very much like, don't sugarcoat this. I need to know the truth because if I'm if I'm aware of my, you know, what's what's going on, warts and all, that's when I will be most productive. That's when I can tackle the real issues. So yeah, it's about them being honest, but also balancing that with being your absolute biggest cheerleader because there will be those lonely moments. Um, and I know that there's people that I can text or call, and they'll just, they just only have to say a couple of things, and everything's okay. Um, and and it's from people that you respect. And there's there's, you know, there's there's quite a few of them in Women's Angels of Wales that I just look up to and think, yeah, that I I would like, I would love more time with you, you know. Can I sit next to you and absorb some of your wonderfulness, you know? And and and it we need those people to more be more accessible as well. You know, they are accessible, but for young women to think, oh, actually, I want to go and speak to that person, and I want to, um, so yeah, it I think it's yeah, it's also just getting on with it. I think you can get to the point sometimes where you hear so many different opinions that you can turn yourself inside out, um, and a lot of the time you have to go with your gut. And I think that's what we're particularly good at as women.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, very good. So, what's one piece of advice you would give to the women who are listening to this podcast today?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Never be afraid to ask a question or reach out or um introduce yourself. I mean, I'll, you know, hopefully, Mary, that we'll go on and have a great friendship in the future. And I'm so glad that I made that that effort to speak to you. Um, because and and look at what's come from it, and that I could give so many different examples of that, where I've gone out of my comfort zone and thought, no, I I need to put myself in a position now where I can speak to that person and get some advice. And you know, and if it's not them, then I'm always really willing to signposts. It's like I don't know everything, but I know somebody that will be absolutely the right person here. Um, and because people have done that with me as well. You know, I took a trip to the Middle East recently, um, and somebody said to me, uh, my friend's out there, and I really think that you'll get on. And we had a coffee, and it was just literally, I yeah, I mean, I I'd never have met him in the UK, and we we hooked up in Dubai for a coffee. And did I have to meet him? Was it an effort to meet him? Yeah, absolutely. It was a hundred percent worth it. A hundred percent. I mean, I probably got a lot more of it out of it than he did.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Oh, I'm sure that's not the case.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

So, yeah, don't be afraid, don't be afraid to ask. Um, and I've I've met some people that I thought I really admired and I've been disappointed by, and then others that I've thought, wow, you have literally surpassed all expectation. And yeah, just want to be just want to be friends.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

So I just want to acknowledge you, Jane, because you've just shared so met so much wisdom, some really good tips, some really good advice coming out in spades, but it's also your overall presence because you are so inspiring, and I can absolutely see why you get on with people and why you're good at developing the business because you're such an engaging person and a great leader from that perspective.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

It's taking a while to get here.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Well, we're all on our own journey, although you know, people don't like that word anymore, but I think it's a very pertinent description of we're all work in progress, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Total work in progress. I mean, I don't tell my husband that I tell him I'm the finished perfect article, but um he sort of frowns at me when I say that. But um, yeah, and I can always rely on the kids for that reality check. I bought one of those um the red light therapy books. Yes. And I had it on one night, and my little five-year-old said, Mummy, what's that for? And I said, Oh, it's gonna make mummy look younger. And then I literally hopped into bed with him in the morning and he looks at me, wakes up and he looks at me and he goes, You don't look any younger. Out of the mouth of babes. I thought, give it a bit of time, Max. This is early days, work in progress, darling. So, yeah, you can always just rely on them for the reality check.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

So I also want to acknowledge what you've talked about today. So it's so important that our children are educated young in how to be confident with their finances and also employability skills. Really, really important work that you're doing, as well as being a very inspiring leader yourself. So, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Thanks, Mary. Great to see you again.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Thank you so much for listening to the She Leads Collective podcast. If this episode resonated with you, follow the show or share it with a friend and leave a quick review below. Or leave us a comment. Change happens through conversation, so let's keep this one going. Listen out for the next episode and join me as we keep lifting the lid on the stories that matter. Take care and keep leading with heart.